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What does it truly mean to embrace the essence of seasons, traditions, and memory?
As we journey through the anticipation and excitement of upcoming events, how do we navigate the delicate balance between commercialization and faith, particularly during the holiday(holy-day) season?
In this OTC Episode:
• This episode brings you a heartwarming and insightful discussion with Grant, Jerod and our special guest, Jordan, Jerod’s Bride.
• As we share our personal experiences and approaches to holidays and traditions, listen as we contemplate the way ritual shapes children and families.
• We delve into the often controversial debate surrounding the presence of Santa Claus in the festive narrative and its alignment, or lack thereof, with our faith.
• We also touch on the contentious Elf on the Shelf tradition, perfect stories, and archetypes, and the pressure they exert on our celebrations.
• As we move through the different chapters of conversation we reflect on the changing of seasons as a testament to God's rhythms in our lives.
So grab your hot cocoa and enjoy an episode that promises to be thought-provoking, inspiring, and full of Christmas warmth.
Merry Christmas Y’all!
Connect with the Across the Counter Podcast:
Instagram: @acrossthecounterpod
Website: www.atcpodcast.com
Beliefs espoused by the guests of ATC are not necessarily the beliefs and convictions of ATC.
That said the intent of our podcast is to listen, remain curious and never fear failure In the discovery life giving truth. Many people we ardently disagree with have been our greatest teachers.
Pull up a chair across the counter. Your one-stop shop for a variety of perspectives around Jesus and Christianity. I'm Grant Lockridge and I'm here with my co-host, jared Tafta. Jared, why don't you introduce our esteemed guest today?
Speaker 2:Our esteemed guest is my beautiful bride, jordan Tafta. She is the mother of three, single before, a valiant hero who cares for our household on a daily basis and one who, without I, would not be here or live, or I'd probably be under a bridge somewhere. She thinks different, but I don't.
Speaker 1:No, I get that. I'm married too, so I understand. All right, what do you want to talk about? You came with a little topic. Yeah, that's the intro Jordan.
Speaker 2:We were talking about this season and Jordan said I have something, and so we forced her to be on our podcast.
Speaker 3:Yes, now let me be clear. I'm not. I do not have the gift of gab. We made a joke about that in one of our last podcasts. I know you have so many great guests who know what they're talking about, and I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm in good company, because I don't think y'all ever know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:That's facts, so we'll just, we find our way to a point.
Speaker 3:We will just ponder together.
Speaker 1:That's a good way to put it. We'll just ponder together.
Speaker 3:I'm not a ponder either but I'm going to try really hard to flex that muscle.
Speaker 1:You can make it happen.
Speaker 3:But yeah, we started having kids about five years ago and that definitely brings into a person's mind how are we going to do holidays and traditions and things like that? And especially this time of year, I start thinking about it a lot. But also, I'm just one of those people. I love seasons. I love looking forward to fall, winter, spring, summer. I'm very particular about it. I don't want to think about spring things in the fall. It doesn't belong there and that's a really important thing to me. And so something that got me thinking about this is Jared Bless him. He did not grow up learning the months of the year or his seasons and things like that, and so he asked me Don't you laugh at me?
Speaker 1:All right, Jared, we got to teach you.
Speaker 3:I'm not a small man, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:So when I was 18 years old, I was living in Sri Lanka for a short period of time and I did learn my months of the year because the missionary mother that was in the house that I was living with found out that I didn't know my months of the year at like 18 years old, and then she put me through a boot camp of sorts. It was very aggressive and mean. In some ways she withheld nothing. It was like you will not be this dumb in my house and my reasoning was I remember as a small child it was always written on the board Whenever I would go into school, and so I guess I just like didn't record that information. So, as Jordan just mentioned, if she says October when she said that, I immediately thought winter. But it's not winter, it's fall. I was married in October. There's a tattoo on my arm of a date in October, of our wedding date.
Speaker 3:But yes, which really isn't a big deal if you just think of it in that way, but you do. I think it would help you a lot if you had like groundings of seasons and months and things like that. So, anyway, but what really got me thinking about this is that you wanted me to put together a huge calendar on our wall of all 12 months. You wanted to have every birthday, every holiday, when hunting season for ducks started, when school started, when, like every vacation, holidays, tradition, all that kind of stuff, and that sounded like super overwhelming. I was like I felt like I would just like fall on the floor if I looked at it. You know, just like all that information, and I was just thinking that could not possibly be helpful to get that overload of information. But so we really talked about how to, how to like instill that in your brain to help you. You shot down my idea. Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. We talked about not doing that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was going to be like a beautiful mind, like writing all over the walls with like newspapers and stuff. I'd be going crazy. So all that you wanted it in our bedroom too, because that's really the only wall. So I'd be like trying to go to sleep thinking about all these things that were coming.
Speaker 1:That's one of the big things is like you don't want that in your bedroom.
Speaker 3:I want to think about. You don't want that. I don't think that man is birthday coming up next. It's funny too.
Speaker 2:She even said like duck hunting, like as a reference. I've never duck hunted, nor do I duck hunt. That was just another thing, like all the hunting seasons when school starts, birthdays, just like. I just wanted to see the whole year in like one visual snapshot and then, if I look at that enough, I'll begin to have like reference points. But that's the way my brain works in like she's way more type A, which means she actually gets things done in life. Like she accomplishes things she sets out to. That's not bad, whereas, like I'm good with a flyover, oftentimes I'm a ponderer. As she said, that she's not.
Speaker 3:So You're a scholar. A scholar, just an average workman. The blue collar scholar.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that led to. Well, we've been having discussion about tradition and we're in the holiday season, in seasons, in seasons In rhythms of life, and yeah.
Speaker 3:I try really hard with our kids to get. We just get stoked about stuff that's coming up and get excited because you can almost always rely that you can't always rely. I mean it talks about that in scripture as long as the earth remain is here, there will always be seasons.
Speaker 2:He says that.
Speaker 3:And you know, even in creation, like, he set forward seven days. And why did he make seven days? Why do we have seven days? And we have a day for rest and days for work. And then you know he had lots of festivals, for in Jewish tradition I think, there's seven main ones. So traditions, seasons, rhythms, all that kind of stuff is important to God. And so why, why did he give that to us? Because you know how does that reflect the gospel, how does that draw us to him.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's what I want to talk about.
Speaker 2:The last thing is an introduction for Jordan. Is she like, as an example, she remembers everything, like she'll remember things based on the season it was the meal she had, where she was sitting, where the sun was. In the memory, like if she gets lost in a city, she'll like look for where the sun is and determine where the north, south, east and west are and then like find her way to where she needs to go, like a crazy person. That's absolutely wild and she's not like like her ability to place herself like on a map and a road and like geographically, like it's. It's like a spiritual gifting, I think like it.
Speaker 3:No, they talk about. People have intelligences, right? Have you heard of that? And so some people are nature smart, apparently, and I think that's what mine is but I can't remember what it's kind of like the enneagram. You always know you're enneagram but you don't know anybody.
Speaker 2:I don't know any of the others.
Speaker 3:But there's a ton of like mathematical and there's some of intelligences, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's also why like everything ritually, or the rhythms and seasons, like in us being married, like we just liked each other right and got married Like we love each other, but then realizing like, oh, I have a huge deficit in that I barely even know the months of the year and Jordan's entire life revolves around, like love, of rhythm and season and memory. And she's like don't you have memories? I'm like no.
Speaker 3:No, every memory is when he was three.
Speaker 2:That's what his mom is when I was three years old.
Speaker 3:It's okay, I'm the yin to your yang, because there's lots that I do not possess, that you do possess.
Speaker 2:We needed a lot of yang.
Speaker 1:I was, like, what are the things that Jared possesses? Like, what are those?
Speaker 3:Well, it's funny. I always say I'm like what, what? I know that you're always reading. You are at a very smart man.
Speaker 2:He's always inputting, but like where.
Speaker 3:What do you remember about what you're? But you do you remember the randomest stuff? Oh, my goodness, when we first got married, you would. You would just have trivial knowledge about things that you would spout out at people and be like that is a lie, there's no way that you know that. And then we'd look it up, and he did so.
Speaker 2:I think that in in a life of not having anchor points and being a lifelong learner, I think what I did was I I moved toward everything I found interesting but because it wasn't anchored in, like temporal seasons and rhythms I have, I have areas of interest that like go beyond. I don't I'm not trying to like to a horn or anything, but like they're beyond like time and space to some degree. It's just like I love this historical age. I love like I love the way that science and math and like the arts all have different, like unique properties of development and how they can relate to one another. Similarly, like how music is also math and then how, like in many ways, cooking in the senses of tastes, like they kind of have similar like tones. Like, as an example, like sour is almost a sharp tone, will sharp could be used in like as the same as like in your ear If you hear a sharp tone in music like I think I love the way that everything is interconnected and how, like at the root of all, like creation and time and space, there's like there's this core of consistency. But as far as like the things that I like, where I place those, or remembering things, or even what has led to in my life is an inability to like bring areas of knowledge to completion or like master things, because I'm always like moving to the next thing. And so when she asked like like do you know anything like? The answer is like no.
Speaker 3:I don't say, I did not say know anything, I know you know lots of things. It's like what is what do you remember about things? Because but I'm not here to like she doesn't bash it, I'm not trying. Yeah, I feel like I'm bashing you. I'm not really not trying to do that.
Speaker 2:I don't have the ability, I would say I don't have re. I don't have good recall of things that aren't like that aren't needed in that moment, versus like they're, like she said. Like if it's kind of like when you hear a song play and then you remember the words you know what I'm talking about. Like if somebody like put a gun to your head and you can't like say the lyrics, but then you hear the tunes come and the words come. It feels like every memory in my brain happens that way so tell me your favorite memory of the fifth grade.
Speaker 1:I don't remember what school.
Speaker 2:I was in. I don't know what teacher I had. I I know I went to fifth grade and I was in. I went to fifth grade in Greenwood, south Carolina. I know that because I did break I had a laceration through my foot in sixth grade and I remember that because I had to have crutches and there were stairs in the school. That's like that was a poignant memory, but I only know that because of that.
Speaker 1:Like I don't, and that was sixth grade. That was six.
Speaker 2:I was fat. There's a photo of me and this is the best memory. It's terrible, but it was a picture on my memos fridge and it's a photo of us at a cemetery, looking over us a duck pond. Then the photo I'm wearing a white t-shirt and black shorts and then black velcro sandals and my hands are sitting on my stomach in the photo with a skin shave head like that and I was so happy. I didn't know I was fat, because I remember clearly in sixth grade coming back and somebody saying you lost a lot of weight and I was like what do you mean? I didn't know, so that's all I know.
Speaker 1:I still got some baby fat, you know.
Speaker 2:Grant. What do you, what do you remember?
Speaker 1:well, how's your memory oh, that's, I was about to say that is. I work similarly, if you will. I'm like I really just don't remember my life events, like some of my best friends, who have been through my life since K-5, like always, are like remember when you did this? And I'm like, no, I have zero recollection of this and it was like it. You know, it's Tim the Tim, you know dude's just like remember, you know in 2014 you did this. And I'm like, no, how do you? This is insane, that happens, that happens all the time. Yeah, okay, and I mean it's really hard for me to like remember high school, remember middle school, all that jazz.
Speaker 2:So how dare you ask me about fifth grade?
Speaker 1:that's why I wanted to ask and make fun of you and then make fun of myself afterwards, but like I think we're in the minority, I really do. Most people just can like remember like they're high school yeah that's not like a dude thing right like most.
Speaker 3:That's what I was wondering if it's kind of a male-female thing too.
Speaker 1:I think we're in the minority. I think most dudes remember they're like forget, like tasks and like to-do lists and stuff like that but, I, feel like most dudes like will remember some frame, yeah, like life events and stuff.
Speaker 3:So you found another one that's not good.
Speaker 2:This podcast can.
Speaker 1:We don't know what time is it so? Why do you?
Speaker 2:guys. All right, so we have both ends of the spectrum per se. We have, like, a person that by nature remembers everything and even, like remembers it bound to the time and space yeah, kind of anchors it and those things and nature and those things, and then you have like two people. I would argue we remember a vast amount of things. It just, it's almost like the, the, the vastitude of it like that's not a word it's almost like the, the breadth of what we remember. It's so scattered that it's almost like sometimes we remember nothing, because it's like what are you so? Why did God give us? What Jordan asked was like why is there rhythm, why are there seasons? And then the secondary question I would think is like how do those things shape us?
Speaker 1:I mean, so you got to have a reference point right of just like how to go through life, so like you know where you're born in the United States and South Carolina, wherever you guys were born. But like that's kind of your reference point and I feel like seasons are a good like reference point to where it's like okay, you know, in December I'm gonna have Christmas, so that like actively like gives you time to like spend with family and like work that in you know with Thanksgiving and all that. And I feel like if you didn't have those reference point and like the seasons and holidays, it would be hard to, you know, make space for all the things that you need to make space for, if that makes sense what do you mean?
Speaker 2:that's what do you mean make space for the things that you need to make space for like when?
Speaker 1:like would you have your whole family together again? Like are you just gonna go plan, plan that like once a year, you know right what time, why, you know that's sort of thing. And Christmas is like hey, we should probably. Or Thanksgiving's a better example of like hey we should probably go see the whole family and that doesn't really happen, unless you like make it happen, and it's nice to have a season or a holiday specifically for that an excuse.
Speaker 3:Yeah, essentially, yeah, yeah like was that thing?
Speaker 2:like you I don't know where this comes from, but familiar phrase like you need a reason to celebrate that, yeah. An excuse or reason, yeah it's so funny.
Speaker 3:This is the way my brain works, because pretty much every month or every other month has has got something going on for at least an American society of holidays. Got you know new years, then Valentine's Day in February, you've got st Patty's Day in March, easter in April. June is a little, but most people are vacationing in June. Vacation July, 4th of July, august is a little, there and right. I mean I guess there's Memorial Day and Labor Day somewhere in there.
Speaker 2:I never remember where those are if you're looking at Grant and I the hell I was like I'm impressed, yeah like. St Patrick's Day, march 17th.
Speaker 1:I'm definitely short, but just know I am short and you're short of the make oh yes, and my hands are tiny, and my feet?
Speaker 2:it's your little feet that you look like one, I'm shaped like one well for us.
Speaker 3:I always feel like kind of it's a desert land between January and February, cuz I don't know, valentine's Day is kind of lame to me, it's just like cold and I don't want to go out and I don't know. So I literally whenever I was thinking about having this fourth baby, I was like late January, february, that'd be a good time to have a baby, because then we'd have like a birthday to celebrate in there and like break up that. That's like how my brain works. Literally it's a we're due at the end of January and she doesn't like share these things.
Speaker 2:She's just like this is how I'm planning my life, and then later I'm like okay like a master science just like pull on the string.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it is.
Speaker 3:It is excuses to to get together and celebrate and be together. So yes.
Speaker 1:So I have a question for you, jordan. So how do you? So? I had this conversation, you know, a week ago, and so you got Christmas right. Christmas is coming up. Probably when Reed releases, it'll be somewhat Christmasy, if not Christmas. So what is so? There's like going leaning end to all the festivities, right. There's the tree and the gifts and then you know, whatever the Christmas movies and the Christmas cookies and all that jazz. And then there's like the other side, that's just like no presents. You know, presents are from the devil. This is Jesus time, like we're not in on this. So where do you candlelight services?
Speaker 3:yeah, like candlelight services.
Speaker 1:It's gonna be dark too, like where your sackcloths, you know that sort of thing. It's not a happy service. It's gonna get you. So, like where, where do you fall in in that? Obviously probably be somewhere in the middle, but do you lean towards a specific side in that?
Speaker 3:yeah, sir, certainly in the middle I think. I mean, even before I had kids, I I did. I didn't like the commercialism of the holidays and everything. But, like Santa, santa's a big issue with people and this is just totally my opinion. I don't have judgment of people, you know, whenever it comes to Santa, but I heard a sermon once and it talked about how obviously the holidays is about the birth of Jesus Christ and so why do we need a fat jolly man in a red suit to like top that or make it better, you know? And I was like, yeah, I can get on board with that, and I'm not even in that camp of feeling like I'm gonna mess up my kids but they're gonna think I was like lying to them or whatever one day if I told them that Santa wasn't real or whatever. But so we just kind of decided we don't. I mean, we still watch. I love the rank and best. You know the claymation, like Rudolph the Red. Nose reindeer and all of those. I love those. I'll have those on repeat all the time and they have Santa in them. But he's just a character and he's fun and he does represent kind of like a. He's just a man who loves and you know I like all that and there is serious historical roots to him. I haven't even explored into that. But we don't tell our kids that Santa comes into our home through the chimney and leaves presents. Like I wanted them to know that the presence, who the presence came from, so that they could be thankful to the person that gave them the presence. And I also. I also felt like Santa was kind of a little bit anti-gospel, because it's like if you're good, you will get gifts and that's not what God does for us, like we are not good and he still gives us the greatest gift, and so that's what I wanted to teach our kids. But that that was just kind of where we landed and I don't feel like it makes Christmas much less magical. I found out Santa wasn't real when I was really really young, so maybe, maybe that's it too, like I didn't really have a lot of memories. When we came to that decision I say that decision this was like years of conversation about the idea of You've got a few years when your kids are really little, like they don't know what's going on. It's just probably this year with my five year old. That he really is like is Santa real, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then all of a sudden you've got to like give answers for your choices. Then we look at each other across the room. What is he? What do we?
Speaker 1:say Is Santa real? No, no, he's not no he's not he's like oh shovel some coal Honestly.
Speaker 2:So I think, as you were saying, that I was kind of processing again why we came to the decision that we did, and I think that it comes from the idea that, like every human story, any story is not the story. Like any story we tell any fiction, any archetype of good, bad, like if you know anything about, like literature, like we have a pretty consistent set of models that stories follow heroes, villains, et cetera, like you could dig in a little bit more, but any story is not like they're almost all myth, except for the one true myth, the one story that's too good to be true, that God would love us and he would send his son, that we can't pay anything for it. And so I think what we settled on is like to like get out pitchforks and say, like to hell with Santa. And then every other story, except the most pure story, like if you follow that to its end, it's like life is dull and colorless, like you can't tell any story that's enjoyable because everything is not perfect. So, instead of like idolizing one or the other, we can say like Christ is the reason for this season and like God sending his son as a child and that's the truest gift, and there is nothing that can ever be paid. But then also, like I think stories allow us to participate, like even God gave us a story in his word, and so I think God like delights in our artistic interpretations of goodness and of story. And so for us, like I just can't imagine that I'm gonna stand before the throne of God one day and he's gonna be like you told them Santa, was it? Like you let them like enjoy Santa Claus, like that's what he's gonna ask me about? Versus like like where was your integrity, your honesty, like your consistency as a father and your love of your wife, your household? Like were you actually, as mother and father, giving a right representation of me and all of your stories, but also in your like, personal story?
Speaker 3:So I don't know if that makes sense, like on how we settled on that.
Speaker 2:We don't have like some hard line stance.
Speaker 3:It's not like a no, I think tradition in general is should just be anything that does turn your eyes towards the Lord turns your eyes towards love, love of the Lord, loving your family.
Speaker 2:So Am I making sense with story Like? Is that confusing what I'm saying? The idea of like. Like if you tried to eliminate everything that wasn't like purely the singular, right, non-negotiable story of Christ, like that's the scripture. But then you would even get into, like whose interpretation is right, and then, like, does that make sense? Like you would even get down into like which historical representation is right, and then we're like worshiping days and like worshiping almost like the Pharisees were, and they would argue about generations and genealogies. And then, all of a sudden, like that, it feels like Christ showed up and said like would you stop? Like talking about who has the right day? Like even Paul says that. Like some call Sabbath this day, some call it this day. Like, and even the idea of holidays, like that's the word holy days. Like are we supposed to go back to the Jewish feast? Or what do you think? Am I like? in sense, you're looking at me like like he left the building or I did. Oh, no, no.
Speaker 1:That totally makes sense to me, you need a snack. Give me a little snack, little drinky milk and cookies and I'll be good.
Speaker 3:Just did I verge for a minute. I realized I wore the worst sweater to record a podcast cause I'm covered in jingle bells.
Speaker 2:Every time.
Speaker 3:I move, I'm just a janglin, so sorry about that.
Speaker 1:How do you feel about Christmas? Well, I'm wearing jingle bells.
Speaker 3:I know I'm almost eight months pregnant, so I'm just sweating. And I want to take it off, but it's just going to jangle all the way.
Speaker 2:You set the mic down and then take it off and we'll keep recording. Hey, we can always pause, that's a fact.
Speaker 1:Hold on, let me tell you so, if you want to.
Speaker 2:It's going to jangle all the way.
Speaker 1:So Christmas something or other? What?
Speaker 3:were we talking about?
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, so you were talking about the beauty of the things, and if you ever tried to get to the like perfect thing, you're always going to keep on searching, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like if you try to draw lines in the sand about, like the good stories that aren't like yeah.
Speaker 1:You'll never be able to get.
Speaker 3:I don't know, if you're talking about stories, though I mean Santa's different he. We make him real.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm talking more about the idea of like myth, like Greek myths, and then like, to some degree, like fairies, centaurs, santa dragons, like those are kind of like. I'm not a, I'm not a literary and there's a, obviously by the word. I just used to describe that, but like, there's like archetypes of things in our world that we use as reference points and they've kind of come through story and tradition and repeated word.
Speaker 3:It's like Santa's one of those.
Speaker 2:So I was more talking about like. If you have kids and you're now going to move towards saying what do we speak life into and what do we not, and you think that you, you hold yourself to a like, a legalistic standard of like we have to say the perfect words, the perfect archetypes, the perfect stories, you'll lose your mind, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's facts.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? Yeah, but.
Speaker 3:I don't think that's. I mean I don't. I don't think that's necessarily what I was, what I was like. It's more like making something real as cause. That's why I don't have a problem with Santa, like Santa is a good guy, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're more talking about like leaning into them as a lie, where, like culturally, a lot of people tell their kids like Santa is real, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean I'm going to be edgy here. I don't think you have probably many moms that listen to you. I don't know if a lot of moms listen to your podcasts or not. Maybe they do. I listened to it, but Elf on the shelf man like. If I'm going to like go in if I'm going to go in. The Elf on the shelf gets crazy.
Speaker 1:What's the deal with the Elf on the shelf?
Speaker 3:Oh, you know what I'm talking about. I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:Like you put an elf just anywhere and make it do funny stuff.
Speaker 3:So growing up my older brother, whenever he was in elementary school, they had this corduroy teddy bear and every weekend the kids got to take it home for the weekend and like the whole thing was during the week, the teacher would like secretly move it around the room and that was like kind of cool and magical. And so the deal was, when it went home, like the parents knew that's cool, that's fun. Elf on the shelf man is like. I feel like people I mean he that is like their only hope of getting their children to obey anything in the month of December. I feel like Cause it's like the whole thing is is he's watching and he's going to go tell Santa what you've been doing, what you've been up to and if you've been bad or if you've been good and all this stuff. And like. I mean some people get into it fun, you know, they make him get into things and they move him around like he's alive and stuff. But it is definitely a tool of Manipulative.
Speaker 1:That's the anacrisis Discipline, in my opinion.
Speaker 3:I actually have less a problem with Santa than I do with Elf on the shelf.
Speaker 2:honestly, but that's now like using, like, whatever you want to call it, you know, almost like idols, like it's a, it's a.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know, I just it feels To manipulate that. Yeah, it's like let's start sticking pins in it and making it like a little voodoo doll or something. I don't like it, mm-mm.
Speaker 1:So here's, here's where I would go, is so? If you don't know I'm a Scrooge, he knows I'm a Scrooge. Oh, you're so much in. It's just I'm trying my best, I'm trying to learn.
Speaker 3:But you look like a leprechaun.
Speaker 1:My wife knows that I'm a Scrooge now and we're working on it Like I'm trying to like this Christmas I'm gonna get more into it, or I'm gonna at least try, because I'm the guy that like never asked for gifts because, like I didn't care about presents like at all and like that sort of thing, like it just.
Speaker 3:Did you get good presents when you were growing up? Like did your family get into it? I mean they weren't like into it, but they did do like Christmas stuff, yeah, so it wasn't like crazy, but you know, do you remember getting a soup, being just super stoked to get like a special thing when you were growing up that you asked for?
Speaker 1:The best gift I think I ever got as a kid was because they would get me like thoughtful gifts that I didn't care about. But they taped. They got a bag of baked lays chips, which is like my favorite, like baked lays barbecue a big fan and they taped money to it and they gave me baked lays barbecue with money on it and that was a jam. That was your best gift. That was like all right. Now we're talking.
Speaker 2:Grant is also a businessman and he's good at it.
Speaker 1:It was like. It was like give me that.
Speaker 3:He bested a hedge fund.
Speaker 1:You can eat you can eat some baked lays and count your monies, but I will say that just so that people know that I haven't met you.
Speaker 2:Like Grant is one of the most generous, hardworking, service oriented, kind men that I know in my life. Like he's down to show up for anybody anywhere.
Speaker 1:You're not a.
Speaker 2:Scrooge in the spirit of like kindness and generosity but you do hate. You do hate the commercialism of Christmas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know what it is and it's not like I'm on my like holy journey kind of thing, it's not like, oh, I'm better than you guys, like I know, you know, I know the real meaning of Christmas, and you guys suck. It's like more on the lines of just like I don't know. It's like we're like trying to like represent Jesus and we're trying to like get say that like this is the holiday for Jesus's birth, and then it's like, okay, what is the way we celebrate that? Okay, we buy a bunch of stuff which doesn't sound like a good start.
Speaker 2:It is gifts.
Speaker 1:Okay. So we are like kind of being generous, but we're also like you have to be though. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, I have my list of people I have to buy for because I have to.
Speaker 1:And it's not generous. Yeah, it's not generosity, it's just like just getting stuff.
Speaker 3:What is it called? Obligation? Obligation 100%.
Speaker 1:So I don't love that and there's all sorts of like, like the Christmas tree, like what is that it was? What was it? It was like basically pagan ritual back in the day that they were like worshiping you know things and it would keep like bad spirits out your house. And then they like modernized it in Western Germany or something like that, with they had this weird thing, so they would put the fur in your house, which is basically like the Adam and Eve tree of good and bad, whatever you want to call it with apples. And then they had this thing called a Christmas pyramid. That was sick. It was like a wooden box that had like the star and had like some stuff, and then they combined it to and or they combined the two and boom Christmas tree. And yes, I do know about Christmas tradition, dad.
Speaker 2:I can tell you the story of.
Speaker 1:Santa Claus too. I can give it to you.
Speaker 2:Give me, give me like a one minute Santa Claus story, because I don't know that.
Speaker 1:So Santa Claus is good old Saint Nicholas, which is a dude that was running around like being super generous. He gave away like his whole, like life's fortune, to like the poor, and then he helped like the needy and the sick, and people loved him and his nickname was like I forget what, but it sounded kind of like Santa Claus and we just based it off of that. So he's a super generous guy that went around and then somehow we got to where we are now, but it's just like slow steps. I don't know all the in between, but I know that it's based off of that dude. That was an awesome dude, but it's like if he saw Santa Claus, would he be like that's good stuff or would he be like this is like? I do not want this to be my legacy.
Speaker 2:And it's like I don't know Well if Jesus saw, if Jesus saw the little C Christ that are representations of him across the world that claim his name like what he want us to be, his legacy as well.
Speaker 1:Eesh, I just don't. That's just kind of what upsets me about Christmas, and it's not like I'm holier than now. It just for some reason like gets me slightly upset that everybody like it's the same feeling that I get when I'm in a Bucky's If you've ever been to the gas station Bucky's it's like a Walmart size gas station thing and it's the same feeling I get when I go into one of those where everybody's just like buying and selling and going nuts in there and they're like I got to get these beaver nuggets and all this stuff.
Speaker 3:It's frantic it's absolutely frantic.
Speaker 1:And then Christmas comes along and it's like very much the same.
Speaker 3:You know what does. Jesus, you know, tell us to do it's like you know slow down kind of thing, like rest, like be generous, but like you know, rest and rest in the Lord and stuff We've made it very counterfeit For sure, because, yeah, it's like definitely, I think the enemy is like twisted these things, like you're saying generosity, and then he twists it into into the gift giving frenzy of obligation or whatever. That's kind of my heart with Santa is like I, I, I, I, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like he's. You know, he's a good fellow to watch on a cartoon, in my opinion, because he's a good, he's a good man, he's generous and he loves children. Like how can you knock that?
Speaker 2:But I don't.
Speaker 3:I don't need to detract away from by making him real. I feel it that that begins to attract away from. And you know, even with the Christmas tree, I knew that about the Christmas tree and stuff. But we can also pull good things that point to the Lord in it, like we've got a really cool ornament that we use whenever I was a kid it's an actual, it's a nail that's like the size that they use when they crucified Jesus. And so we can pull that thing out and they can feel how heavy it is and how long it is. And then just kind of think about that went through his hands and feet hanging on a tree. I mean the tree. Could you, can, you can create ways to pull it back to Christ. The tree, I mean, there's a tree that he died on a tree.
Speaker 1:If that's the way that we do Christmas, I love that.
Speaker 3:We decorate our house with lights because the Lord is the light of the world and like we we put, we have this big cross not big, but it's this cross, light lit cross that, jared, may we put it up in our cherry tree and so it's like when you go down our street it's like a glowing cross up there.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 3:Like I think that all of those things they point us to Christ and if we're intentional with it, I think that's the key. Yeah, intentionally, it points back to.
Speaker 2:Christ. I think the difference matters. I think the difference is this is just a side thought or a tangent, like we're talking about the traditions that we have now, but even the traditions we have now and we live in America and so they're very like America is the land of, like commercialism, and so even what we have now distraction and the commercialism distraction industry but also like it's not that old. So we're talking about, let's say, max, like 200 years, if that of where we are now in 200 years is like four generations or less. So what's fascinating about that? Even when you talk about like the Christmas tree or where it came from, or St Nicholas, like that's not that many years prior, that this generation, a general women's scripture talks about, like this generation, like that's talking about like as I live and breathe right now, I'm touching like two generations behind me and maybe two in front of me and so, like this generation is everybody included and we're all kind of touching like this season and so that moves on. But the whole reason I'm sharing that is like when we talk about like what we're laying hold of in this season. I think about where Jeremiah says you know, get go to the crossroads and look and like, look to the ancient past or like the ancient ways and walk in them, and it talks about, like the idea of ancient wisdom, which is like what the proverbs are, and so there are things that are unchanging about the consistency of nature and reality and the consistency of God's character, but also some things that are unchanging like just because pagan rituals took the Douglas fir and use that in a pagan ritual. Prior to that, a good God created the Douglas fir and it had purpose and it had value and we imprinted idolatry upon it with some of the things that we do so like. That's also why I don't have an issue with, like you know, using the star, like there's a North Star that moves in this and it does not change as this is a representation in scripture, often as an anchor of Christ, like he's called the Morning Star. Also, satan is called the Morning Star in scripture, like the star that fell and like you can dig into that, but like the reason I'm saying all of that is is it is not the symbols or the stories that make us have idolatrous hearts. Our idolatrous hearts are born into us and so it is what we do with the symbols and stories and how we express ourselves and what we value that really show what we're worshiping. So I think a lot of times the reason we're so angry when we see the Christmas season turn into this like frantic vomiting. Blood in the water with sharks, yeah, like it's because, like this is supposed to be, like of all times, like this is supposed to be the time that we have peace and joy and Jesus is the light of the world. And it's like you wanna see some of the angriest, most short tempered, and I'm probably one of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I will be soon.
Speaker 2:And like how quick you can just get to like these people can die in that superman's fun.
Speaker 3:Costco is not my place for the next couple of months.
Speaker 2:Like we cross one of the like the busiest highways in the way here and you just see like traffic for miles and like it's horrendous. And I think it's because of what Jordan said like the flesh, our flesh, the world and the devil, like that unholy trinity, if you will, like they are bent on misshaping and unaligning and breaking what the season is made to be. And what's weird is like we as people don't it says, though we don't realize that's happening to our families like your mother and father, my mother and father, jordan's mother and father. Like they received some traditions and some not, but I say not traditions like they did some things that weren't really like spoken about and said like as this is a tradition, but it just became so because they continued to participate in it, and then, like we now are choosing to look at how we're gonna raise our children and we could just like go with the flow of what happens in the seasons and you could find like some value in those things, but you could also just end up being like a wash on the rocks, because the culture is not your friend. And so what's weird and what we're talking about is like I feel like we're now at the end of like a generation, like that golden era of America, and then we're obviously in a country that seems to be dissolving in a lot of ways in terms of its virtues and its moral and its characters and its goals. And so now it's interesting that like there's a few people under 40 sitting in this room saying, like what is consistent, what's worthy of being a holy day? And the last thing I was saying I'm done talking was like I think sometimes also we're angry around Christmas time because like it shouldn't just be Christmas time, like the whole year should have, should have seasons and representations that point toward an empty tomb, toward a resurrected Christ, toward the way that we should live. Like that January, the end of December, through, like what is it like February? Like that cold season where everything pulls back and dies, like that's the, that is that cold, empty tomb, but then spring is next, right, like when spring comes, I was like you knew that?
Speaker 1:things were cold there, let's go.
Speaker 2:Cause it's cold in December.
Speaker 1:It's morning you knew that cold was happening.
Speaker 3:Like the fact that spring, we've been married nine years. This has been a lot of work.
Speaker 2:Just kidding the fact that like everything pulls back and dies and like it's almost as though the world holds its breath, like is there gonna be another spring? Like if you've been in like a deep, cold winter, like that stuff's depressing man and like all everything kind of stops. And then it's almost like like a sigh of God when spring comes and everything starts to come back to life. Like why is that? Why do we not, as families, point our kids to like yeah, we're getting close in this season, like learning what it is to wait, learning what it is to be, still learning what it is when you, when you have seasons in life that you can't till the ground right now, like it's frozen, it's hard, you can't do anything, and so whatever you've worked on previously in the year, that is the harvest that you have. Like that would be a great lesson to teach a young son or a young daughter. There's some seasons in life that you just can't break ground and you should just sit and like you should, you should partake of friends and family and relationship and like learn what it is that God is faithful to bring another spring and until the end of time, there will always be spring and there will always be sunrise. That would be a really great thing to know when everything is falling apart in your life.
Speaker 3:If your parents, like just spoke that in the evening, that's what I was thinking in sunrise. His marces are new every morning, like God always brings the sun back Right. And then this was in a book that I read. What's that book? The?
Speaker 2:Liturgy of the Ordinary. Liturgy of the Ordinary.
Speaker 3:I don't remember what her background is, but she's very liturgical in what she and the whole book is. Just goes through her day and talks about how just the simplest things like brushing her teeth, rising, going to sleep, things like that, and how those can all be an act of worship. I especially remember her talking about going to sleep, because that's just a total, like I'm gonna go away now and just trust that the Lord's gonna hold it all together.
Speaker 2:So I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think that's why so many people who don't have the peace of the Lord, like nighttime is such an enemy to them, because they can't do that, they can't just close their eyes and surrender it to the. Lord, yeah, but also yeah, I think that the seasons bringing it back down to that, I mean seasons, wintertime, that's whenever trees can get back down and strengthen their roots, that's whenever they like they need that, they need that time of dormancy and like to strengthen so that they can keep going into the next season of fruitfulness Right like a time where there's not growth, a time where there is. Yeah, they have to have that to survive. If they're constantly going, they'll burn out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think like the last thought that I have, because that was like a long rant, but it would be the idea that, like we have an opportunity every there's 168 hours and every week there's a Sabbath in every week there are consistent seasons every single year. I don't always know what they are or where the months hit.
Speaker 3:But they are.
Speaker 2:They are there. I know about that. So like we have opportunity as we raise our children, as we walk with others, like God's rhythms are not chaotic we are, but his or not. So we have the ability to just look and say, like these things will be, like the sunrise will be, the seasons will be, and then we can shape our lives around God's rhythms. And to me, like my parents didn't inherit a good family name with good family traditions, if that makes sense. Like they came from some broken households to some degree of another. So like Jordan and I are kind of the like we had two really good households that we came from, with our parents taking really incredible steps from what they came from, if that makes sense. And so like we're the first generation in this name to be able to say, like how do we want to intentionally shape this? Because we're not in survival mode as maybe our parents were or the parents before them. So we're kind of like standing on the backs of our predecessors. So there's no like pride or arrogance here, but we should be incredibly intentional about what we're setting our faces toward as we raise our children. And I really like the language that a friend of mine uses, which is this is how it is for us to act. Like that speaks the language of family over our family, and so the more in our day and age that we say for our household, our Tafta household, but even more than our last name, just our family, this is how it is for us to act. If we say that, based on the way that this is how it is for God's family to act, then our kids know that they have familiarities about who they are based on what we have done together and what we have been. As a man that remembers almost nothing, it does become hard later in life to know who you are when you can't remember consistent pillars of things that happened in your life, about places of peace, refuge, love, kindness. I don't know, grant, you tell me, but it does make me feel a little lost sometimes.
Speaker 1:Gives me a lot of peace. If you don't remember, you're good man. Was there pain back there? Maybe it's not really, but I don't know I mean that's valid. It's kind of helpful in a sense, it really is super easy to forgive people. Not in the sense because you just don't remember. If people are like did something, I just don't hold on to things because I just do not remember them. It's not like because there is a difference between and this is something that I learned is there's a difference between like forgetting and like forgiving. It's not like you know, if you just forget and you never forgive, that's not the same thing. I'm not saying that like I just forgive because I forget things. If I remember it and I like actively, I'm like forgiving that person. That's a whole different, whole different spiel. I got a role here in a second, but I want Jordan to give us one last, whatever you want to share with the listeners, and we'll go from there, because I want you to end it however you deem fit.
Speaker 3:Too much pressure in that.
Speaker 1:There's no pressure, there's an immense amount of pressure, but we won't remember it. We won't remember it.
Speaker 3:You've got to give me something I don't know.
Speaker 1:So you had this like cool thing about seasons and the way that God sees that and honors us going with the seasons. So what would be one thing based off of that that you could share that would help people like us do that?
Speaker 3:Can you ask to enjoy this.
Speaker 2:Enjoy them. And then you also posed a question again, which was why did God give them to us? How would you help us, who remember nothing, to enjoy them, and why did God give them to us in the first place?
Speaker 1:I like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I'll start with the second question. I believe that God gave them to us, or he continues to grow me in this, but right now I just feel like it's a huge point to the gospel of the renewing of each day. The renewing of the world and that's what the gospel is Is it's taking complete brokenness and always bringing life to it, and so the world is constantly cycling through that. That God is consistent and he will always, always shower his that gospel message on anyone, and it does just show his consistency, his love. Yeah, he is a God of order and he loves his creation and takes care of it, and we're part of that. What was the oh, how, to kind of take in the seasons? I really don't know. It's kind of like asking me how do you breathe?
Speaker 1:I just, I just do it automatically. You don't just get ticked at Christmas time and then you're like what does Easter mean? Was there a bunny?
Speaker 3:And then you're like, yeah, we don't get into the bunny. But I'm super weird, Like I weirdly get into leprechauns in cause. I just think, like it, it tracks nothing for like St Patrick's Day. I mean, I know the history of St Patrick and like I teach that to my kids. He's a good missionary and supposedly ran the snakes off of the island of Ireland.
Speaker 2:And now we drink, and now we drink, now we drink. He was a great saint.
Speaker 3:But like I'll talk about, leprechauns cause it's fun or whatever, but I don't feel like it's distracting, Um, I don't know. I just uh. Well, I think, for one, just being out in creation and nature, I think that that's huge. That's something that I try to do with my kids is just have them out in it a lot, Um, I mean.
Speaker 2:I, I think from you teaching me and you can speak to how you've done this. But you'd like you pay attention to the month and then, like you, look for what anchor point is exciting in each month.
Speaker 3:Yes, there there's a lot of stability. Like I, I very intentionally teach this stuff to my kids this season. So holidays or traditions of things, I have them look forward to these things. All the while not trying to have over emphasis on the stuff that's coming, you still want to be present. You know we're enjoying this season that we're in and then this is what's coming up, but I think it brings a ton of peace to me. Inversely to your piece of like not thinking about it, it's just like I know that. I know that this is coming because the Lord always brings it and that brings a lot of security for me. I think of knowing that those seasons are coming. And then, yeah, there's just so much direct application in the spiritual walk, just like we talked about with dormancy and or fruit times of fruitfulness, there's times where you're barren. There's all sorts of that in the seasons. I think gardening weirdly has there's so many lessons, just in like everyone should try to do a garden for just like. Give yourself three years that you're going to do a garden, because there's so many things that you learn within each year.
Speaker 2:Garden, cook, have kids. The whole Bible will make way more sense. It does make a lot of sense. Everything dies, cries craps on itself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and the bugs eat it all.
Speaker 1:That's a good place to end it, but the Lord is good because he brings it around every year.
Speaker 3:I think that always brings it, always renews it. They die.
Speaker 2:Ended on a good note. I think what you do well is you have a heart of celebration for what's coming. Where does that come from?
Speaker 3:Just the consistency of my pasts and looking, looking at those things and just I don't know man, I'm in it all, really sad, like lame note. No, I don't think.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't want to like, I don't love my voice being the last thing, but I like what I've seen in you. Is you just look forward with joy, like regardless?
Speaker 3:of it. It's a gratitude, yeah, it's gratitude that the Lord brings all of these good things. It's good and abundant gifts. It's a gift. It's a gift for winter, it's a gift for summer, it's a gift for Christmas, even though there's a lot of crappy people that surround it. Not focusing on that is another tool of design of the devil, I think. So, just like focusing on what I'm doing. Anything you have to be about your kids. You don't have to have kids to have intentionality to what you celebrate.
Speaker 1:So that was beautiful. Thanks for listening to the Across the Counter podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate us five stars wherever you got this podcast. Thanks, y'all.
