Strings and Heart | Angelo Espinosa | Episode 30

Speaker 1: 0:00

Okay, welcome to the Across the Counter podcast, where we make space for real people to have honest conversations. You got Grant Lockridge and Jared Tafta here. What's up? And then we're with Angelo Espinosa, otherwise known as Strings and Heart. So, angelo, welcome brother, we're happy to have you across the counter. Give us a little bit of an introduction. Tell us where you're from and how you got started.

Speaker 2: 0:25

Awesome guys. Hey, thank you so much for having me on. It's really an honor to be here, so thank you Super humbled that you guys would reach out. And yeah, well, I'm Angelo Espinosa. I have two brothers, their name is Michael and Eric, and we have a band called Strings and Heart Love, making music for Jesus. Not life music or anything like that, just music that's straight up about God, straight up about Jesus, about testimony, but also worship, and so, yeah, that's a little bit about me and the band. I'm 20, you're getting confused. I just turned 23,. October 2nd, I turned 23. My two brothers are I hope I said this right, I think 20 and 19. So, yeah, that's a bit about us.

Speaker 1: 1:14

Don't worry, I would have failed that test. I remember no dates. I have two brothers. They're somewhere in the range of having kids and not married whatever, I like that.

Speaker 3: 1:27

How did you start the band? Have you played music for a long time, or you just wanted to do it?

Speaker 2: 1:34

Yeah, so when we started the band I how does I? I was because we released the first single, I believe, in 2019, so I was 18 years old and before that we had like a. We had like a little like a fake band, like a kid band, because my parents are in the music industry, in the Spanish, christian Spanish industry. They had a band in there, so we would travel with them when we ever since we were young, so we homeschooled and and we would go with them and when we were in town we would. There was this school, this curriculum called the ACE. I don't know if you're familiar with that, but it allows you to to basically either do your do your work with you or you can go to the school with some supervisors and other kids. And so there was a school here and we would go there. Very, very small graduating class was like six people, so super tiny. And so, yeah, we would homeschool and since both of our parents we come from a musical background of two parents, music was basically a chore for us. So we had to like I had a practice piano for hours a day, my other brother had to practice the guitar and my youngest brother had to practice the drums, and we all really just hated music because it was a chore. It wasn't like something we wanted to do, was like something you got to do, and singing as well, which now we're super grateful for right. But as I got older and I remember for the first time I listened to a John Mayer album my uncle was listening to it. I was just saying he gave it to me. It was a live performance, john Mayer at the Nokia Theater. I watched it. I was like, oh my gosh, this is so cool. I fell in love with music. And then, when I was 19, no, sorry, when I was 18, no, sorry, I think I was 17 is when I had my first real encounter with Jesus. Also, besides my parents, they're already Christian, but I had my first real encounter with Jesus at 17. I decided to give my life to Jesus and after that I just was like, okay, I'm going all in with music. I also played baseball and I was in love with both, but I felt like God had called me to music. I'm like, okay, I'm going all in with music, but I'm going in with a purpose, with a vision, not just to do music and to make, like, obviously, a real band and to really go for it. And my brothers I spoke to them like, you guys want to do a real band now. And now that we all like music too, and they're like, yeah, let's do it. And so we made the band Strings and Heart. And, yeah, we started the band 2018, I would say. Then we released our first single in 2019. And there was some. We've been in a learning process, so we released stuff inconsistently, but now we're in a flow of we know what we're doing. So music's coming out a lot faster now. And yeah, that's how we started.

Speaker 1: 4:40

That's awesome. What was the fake band? Like a kid band. You said that was your first one.

Speaker 2: 4:47

Oh man, yeah, I made it.

Speaker 1: 4:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was that?

Speaker 2: 4:50

like, that was what was the name, too the name, okay, so our last name is Espinosa, and so we didn't even name it. Our parents named it. It was Spin Three and so, yeah, we had the Spin Three.

Speaker 1: 5:11

Yeah, man.

Speaker 3: 5:11

That was let's go.

Speaker 2: 5:14

Yeah, we never told people when we were going up the name Because we had a, especially when I was in baseball or my brother's, or especially in high school. We were like, let's just keep that for ourselves.

Speaker 3: 5:28

This is when we're going to get made fun of. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:33

And then I think someone did find out at our school, but, like I said, it wasn't too big so it didn't really matter.

Speaker 1: 5:39

But someone who mistakes people. Yeah, it's like there's one main kid One, main kid.

Speaker 2: 5:45

Yeah, it was a. Yeah, I was a friend of mine. So every time he saw us he would spin three times, and then he would say he would spin three.

Speaker 3: 5:55

We're going to intro you instead of like you're the lead singer, right.

Speaker 2: 5:59

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 6:01

Instead of like lead singer to you know strings and heart, we're going to be like. This is the guy, the man, the myth, the legend from the spin three.

Speaker 1: 6:09

Yeah man, the legend in his mother's heart.

Speaker 3: 6:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:16

No, I, yeah, my friends had named it that and I think at least like a song in Spanish. But yeah, it was. Yeah, that was. That was not a real band, but they were given with a real band. It bases out of songs 150, where the translation I was reading, where it says you know well, it talks about praising God, like with everything and with all the instruments, is just kind of talking about glorifying God. And the the translation I had, instead of I don't know if it was probably substituting for harp it said strings. It says strings and symbols and drum and and and lyre and trumpets and stuff. And there was a version I read that says strings, and so for me it was kind of just like okay, strings also. We played my instruments guitar play strings. And like what I was getting from that verse and something that was always in my heart was just like if you're going to do something, you're going to give it to you all. You have to do with all your heart, and so, yeah, just put those two together strings and heart, that's all I'm doing with that.

Speaker 1: 7:21

Give me a. Um like I love what you said about. So I'm not a musician. I couldn't carry a tune in a bag if you handed it to me, and I've been told that by others.

Speaker 2: 7:34

That wasn't a thing that I self-learned.

Speaker 1: 7:37

But Grant Grant's a musician, a drummer, but, like a lot of that was because I didn't come from a musical family and it seems like so many people that came from a musical family have the exact experience of. I hated music because it was a chore and now I'm grateful for it, like what I. So I actually did take piano lessons for a little while when I was younger and the only person beside me was someone who could play by ear. So I abandoned that really quickly because, like I just felt like an idiot. So, one, when did you start practicing? And two, like what, what do you feel like? Like I have young kids now. What do you feel like would be an encouraging way of like learning music early? That's better, or is it always just going to be a thing that you hate?

Speaker 2: 8:31

Uh, oh no, I don't hate music anymore.

Speaker 1: 8:33

Um no, no, no, I mean as a young child. Oh, okay, Like yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:37

Yeah, yeah, um, no, yeah for me. So I think, even though I didn't like it, it was super important because also also as a kid, you know, I mean there's some people who do just fall in love right away, but there's, you know, whether your kid loves sports, which just was the case with me and my brothers, or um, or you know they just for me it was like I'd rather do this, I don't want to do this, but at the same time I was a kid, didn't really like, didn't have a. You don't really have a clear, clear vision of some people do, some people don't. But for us and people, I think for some kids it's the case you don't know exactly what you're going to do. When you grow up, you know exactly what we want. So for our parents it was like um, like, my parents were like they didn't do it in the sense of you guys are gonna be musicians, like this is what you're gonna do. They always told us like hey, no, you have to learn this cuz. Like, okay, maybe you won't like it in the future, Maybe you won't want to do it, at least you'll know how, and if you do want to do it, you'll be prepared with all the tools, you be ready. And so, yeah, I remember I was practicing my piano and I was there for hours. I couldn't get something right and my mom was right there and I remember telling my mom like mom, one day I'm gonna buy piano Just so I can burn it, cuz I hate music, I don't want to touch it when I'm older. But yeah, I'd say for to like. I don't know if it's something that can be like, like how to make them like it. I think it's just because for me I don't play piano anymore, but that helped me so much and when I sing and when now, when I produce or and anything, piano helps so much, especially for like your ear, if you music, like when you hear something, if it's clash, you know whatever. So I'm super grateful for those years of of my parents being like no, you guys got to do this, you guys got to do this. You're not just gonna be saying around, do nothing, or watching TV, you're gonna be practicing Music and stuff. And then they also put us in sports because they're like okay, you guys love sports, will put you in that. And so I would say just to Put them in and just think, even if they're not gonna do it Vocal lessons or piano lessons, or if they do like instruments, whatever the instrument is they like, and then if they end up like loving in the future, when they're older, they'll be ready for it, you know mm-hmm, that's good I.

Speaker 3: 11:11

Want to hear more about kind of your testimony of how you in 17, you know what, what changed obviously grew up in a Christian household. So what changed at 17? Like what made you you know? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 11:30

Yeah, so yeah, grew up in a Christian household, christian parents, amazing parents who genuinely love God. But For me, as I was growing up, it became, especially when I became a teenager, it became more like the way I saw. It was kind of like, okay, my parents are Christian, we're all Christian, you know, it's kind of like our religion or whatever. And, and as I grew up, I, you know, call myself a Christian but I didn't have a relationship with God at all. When we were a town, we would serve at church all the time. I'll lead worship, I Would lead students and stuff, feel my age, but I didn't have Any connection with God. I wasn't seeking it, wasn't seeing his face. So what I learned was I learned to to put a mask on whether it was in front of my parents, whether it was in front of my brothers, my friends, a different friend group at church. Now I was just putting on all these different masks of different people, like I'd be a church, okay, guys, so in way what I'm my friends, completely different way. And I had a emptiness in me. But then I realized, because I never doubted God's existence, I always knew he was real. So things I've seen and stuff on my own eyes I'm like there's no way he can't be real. But for me, at a certain point I started realizing how much of a hypocrite I was, being the two-faced I was being In all different aspects and, like you know, like I couldn't keep playing all those characters, I realized it. I got really like ashamed of myself, kind of like disgust doing myself, and I just do away from God and you, away from the church, and I hadn't even deeper emptiness, and With that emptiness I try to fill it with other things, whether it was Whether it was with a girl trying to fill some love, or whether it was distracting myself with with with my friends hanging out or whatever, or or alcohol. At a certain point, when it got worse, and no matter what it was like, yeah, maybe something might have felt good for, let's say, a week or a month, or kind of distract to me, but then at the end of the day it got like old and it got like those things. Not only were they Like leaving me empty, but I just kept feeling emptier because I just felt like like I just didn't have the same feeling. I started feeling numb to it, you know, and Then I got to a point where I'm like man, I'm using people, I'm being selfish and I'm using people for my selfish needs and I'm not in kind of with people who weren't a good influence, but also I wasn't a good influence at all and and so I really started to Just struggle with that. And then, after I realized that I'm like I'm using people, what am I doing? I started isolating myself and that's when it really started getting much worse. I Started, I started isolating myself and I started struggling with depression and suicidal thoughts and and even attempted a couple of times and I really felt like Like, every day, like I just I felt like just frozen, like like I just what's the word? Like my paralyzed or something like if I just couldn't do anything, I couldn't move like and and as time went on, it got worse and worse and worse and I hit rock bottom and and I was at a point where I was just like man. I feel like a failure as a brother, I'm a failure as a friend, I'm a failure as a son and the eyes of God, I feel like I'm a failure and if everyone has seen everything that I've done, nobody would give me grace, nobody would forgive me, and God has seen everything. So he's probably the most disappointed in me right now. And and the suicidal thoughts just came from that feeling and being like man, like there's no way I have purpose in this world, like I'm a mistake, like all I'm doing is hurting people. I'm hurting my brothers, my parents, my friends, people who genuinely love me and care for me. I'm pushing them away and and and. So I was in a very, very just, I hit rock bottom at some point. I tried other things to to numb that, but At the end of the day they weren't working. And and then, as time got on, a friend had invited me to a church of it and and he was like, hey, you should come. And at that point, right, I'm at rock bottom. I'm like Like man, I, I want to go. But then there's that voice time me like who are you to go? Why would you go? Like, are you serious? You know just. And but again I was a rock bottom, had nowhere else to turn. So I was like you know what? No, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna go, I know where else to go. I need to try. So I started driving, I was, I had so much Doubt and noise in my head that I even like, turned around. I was on the freeway and I'm like, what am I doing? I turned around and then I'm like, okay, well, where am I going? And then I turned back around. So I got there a little late and I sat all in the back. I said, I said all the way on the back on. I said, remember, all in the back on the left side. I just sat back there, yeah, because I still felt like I don't what it? Like I don't belong here, what am I doing here? Like. So I just sat all in the back and I was just sitting there and the preaching had already happened and I missed most of worship in the beginning. And then the way that service ended was they would do worship at the end With all the students there and they would all go to the front. And so they all went to the front and I stayed in the back. And then I remember one one Lady. She came up to me that night and I could see her coming on the side of my eye and I'm like, okay, I grew up in church. Like I know you're gonna try to do, you try say something to motivate me to go to the front, to worship Whatever feels like oh okay, here we go. And so she got here. She got, so I was sitting on the chair, she like came from behind and she tapped my shoulder and she was like, hey, I just feel like God wants me to tell you something. I'm like, okay, what's up? And she's like I just feel like he wants me to tell you he's not disappointed in you, you're not a failure. He sees you, he still has a plan for you and he still loves you so much, despite everything. And and right there I just it broke me. I remember I was like in front of her. I'm like, obviously the tears are falling, but I'm like trying to hold them in my eyes. And then she, she prays for me. She asked she's like hey, can I pray for you? I'm like, yeah, she prays for me. That she leaves. And then, soon as she leaves, I'm just back there and I just getting rekt and I stay in that moment. And, to make the long story short, there I had my first real encounter with Jesus and and you know, you hear that verse all the time For like, especially if you grew up in church for God so loved the world that he gave his son, whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. And I were agreeing that all the time, but that night it really just like hit me, like he saw me in my worst place, in my sinful place, and he decided to die for me, take on the wrath that I'm supposed to take on and to die for my sins on that cross and and take my place on that cross. And so that night it just really hit me, everything just really hit me, and and I gave my life to Jesus. And these didn't get like, it wasn't just like, oh, everything just went away. You know the addictions and stuff. But but the different was like now I wasn't alone and I'm not alone with things, and and it's a completely different story because now it's it's fighting those battles, but knowing that Jesus has the victory already. And so, yeah, right, that night I gave my life to Jesus. I was like I'm going all in and so, yeah, right after that, you know I had already had I love music and and I chose I'm like you know, I feel like God's calling me the music and and to share my testimony and to To just make songs that just glorify him, whether they're about testimony, songs of testimony or songs of worship, just songs that just exalt him.

Speaker 3: 20:33

What you got.

Speaker 1: 20:35

What? What was? The Two questions are related. What was the transition like from playing music to worshiping after that? And then how does Worship now help you Stay in that place of fighting the battles but knowing Jesus has the victory?

Speaker 2: 21:05

Yeah, the transition from From that to worship, the different, different perspective, the different feeling is just, it was so different because it's like, it's like man, this is what we're made for, this is what we're Once we pass away in this short life. That's what we're gonna be doing forever, you know, and there's just I mean now Worship is. I remember being little, worship was not my favorite type of music, but now just worship is my the only thing, really not the only thing, but really just Like the thing I crave the most is worship music. And that's just because, like, I Think, once you get to that, that place in your life where you kind of have a revelation of who God is, right, like in Isaiah 6 when I say as a, as a vision, right, a revelation of God, of who he is, he sees him and he says he sees God in a temple, in the train of his row, fills the temple and there's there's seraphim Flying around crying out to each other Holy, holy is the Lord of heaven's armies. And then he gets to him and he has a realization of where he is and who he is and who God is. And he's saying what always me, I am undone, I am a man of unclean lips. I dwell among the people of unclean lips and then at the end he says, yeah, I have seen the king and it's just beautiful. I think that is a real transition, for what? Once you have a revelation of God, the only response is worship. The only response is is true worship to him. Once you have a revelation, you can't help but just worship them, because you kind of see where you are and who he is and what he's done and what you've done, and and and so. For me, I think it was that that transition of just having that revelation and being like how could I not worship, how can I not fall on my knees and humble myself and exalt him the king of kings, that he calls me a father, the creator of the universe, yet I mean not cause me about. Yeah, he calls me his father and that I am his son. He calls me a son, the creator of the universe, the one who's made this entire earth, the one who's made the universe, the stars, all the planets, all these things, and he calls me and he loves me and he gives me grace and he dies for me and everyone here. How could I not worship the king of kings. How could I not want to have that relationship and and and, because that's what we're made for, is like our calling first is to him. It's not too like a Like, just a passion or whatever our first calling is to him. And so I think that transition just really changed everything. That revelation was the transition of worship, of songwriting, of something Really important is, it's just the, the consistency, right, because, and everything in life, consistency is everything. And so just that, that praying for a new revelation and a fresh, a fresh fragrance, and and just to be closer to his heart. And now, especially, once you have that revelation, man, and you see who God is like you could. Now I see the passion King David had Right, why he said I want to dwell in your presence forever, in your house forever. And so I think the, the transition was really the revelation. And To the second point I'm finding the battle is the biggest thing for me. Man has been community. Community, I mean when I struggle with it, when I struggle with all those things I was in isolation, right and community and accountability has been such the, such a big thing in my life. And I lead worship at a church, my worship pastor, james Nester. He's my mentor and and, right, when you have accountability, you don't need to tell the world everything. These are a couple people who, for me, it's just that, it's just him, he holds me accountable of things, and just being open, like, hey, I'm struggling with this right now, you know I'm having, you know I messed up with this, and just being open and transparent. And for me at the beginning it was really hard because in the church I grew up in, it was very the, the culture was very like it, because I grew up in a different church and Then I moved to that church later on because that's the church, right, I gave my life to Christ and so I ended up serving there and stuff, but where it was like, hey, don't say anything, hey like Like, if you mess up, don't expect, because I was a leader there, so they're like and just a kid, and it was like you know, you gotta leave these people, so don't tell them or don't tell anyone this, and that you know, keep it on the down low, and so for me, I kind of my parents didn't teach me that, but I grew up in that culture at the church, so I kind of felt like I had to do that and so that first time being a kind of all, I was like I Don't want to share anything because he's gonna. He's not gonna want to, I'm gonna be rejected, he's not gonna want to. He's good thing, I'm weird and stuff, but he can see it in me. I mean him are very close and he called it out on me and and so I told him I was struggling with and things I messed up with and I was like whoa, this feels, this isn't as like what I thought it'd be, and I just kept going and going. But yeah, the biggest thing of fighting those battles has been community and accountability. Yeah, that's been the huge, the biggest thing.

Speaker 1: 27:13

That's really good. No, you got on that. You like those two things I do, I do.

Speaker 3: 27:22

Yeah, I mean, community is one of those things that's like super hard to do, really really well. But if you find people that are like take you as you are, like Christ does for us, I mean, if you find people that'll like actually like, take you as you are, you can literally share Everything with them, and they're still like, hey, this guy is not a piece of trash. It's like, okay, that's pretty good. So I think that openness is like the key to community, if you will, of just like being vulnerable enough to just like Share everything with people and being, you know, secure and Christ enough for them to just To put yourself out there and be willing to get rejected, which is which is tough man. I mean, you know, yeah, some people will reject you. If you put the, you know, your whole life out there, it's like well, I don't know if I want to be around that guy. It's like yeah, you know that. Make that make sense, but dude. So I have this. I mentioned this on another podcast, but I have this playlist of Christian music. That doesn't suck. You have made it that playlist.

Speaker 2: 28:38

I know that means a lot to you.

Speaker 1: 28:40

I know that it does a high bar Because there's a lot that doesn't make it on that playlist.

Speaker 3: 28:47

What is it? Flowers dressing blue. The Rocklin yeah that that song is a bop, my guy.

Speaker 2: 28:56

I Appreciate that. Thank you so much.

Speaker 3: 28:59

You're crushing it, man cuz I've heard I've just you know, obviously I want to like get my music tastes in line with, like what God wants for me and that sort of thing. So it's like, you know, whatever you watch or whatever you put in your ears, or like that matters, a whole whole bunch of like your Christian walk 100%. Your stuff's just like pretty good, like I love thank you, man. It almost sounds like a mix between like do you know the bancomino is I?

Speaker 2: 29:30

I've heard of them. I've heard that the way I heard them was I saw like an ad of them or something.

Speaker 3: 29:34

And yeah, I've heard, I've been really listening to me, know Christian vibes, which is they're really good, but I just thought I don't know. I just want to tell you that because you just you know you basically Are super fresh, you know in the music singing and you know Just the fact that you have like that production quality and that one was that recorded on something different because it sounds like it's like Almost live ish. How'd you record? How'd you record that one? I'm curious, cuz the other ones are like really well, not that this one's badly produced, but the other ones are like really tight and clean and that one sounds like more open and like you kind of played it.

Speaker 2: 30:19

Yeah, I'm just yeah, there, for that one we really, uh, we went with. We decided to go a little more like raw, if that makes sense, not so polished. Yeah, the real inspiration for that was, like, you know, nirvana or DC talk, where it was just like it's not so polished and perfect. You know music back before they came out, it was very like everything was on point, and then they come out and it's just like Grungy, you know, and just like it just sounds, just sounds more. Yeah, I guess the best part I could say is raw and so first, it was really just a change of using real instruments, in the sense of Not even real instruments, but real drums and bass. I think that's what cuz? The rest of them, I don't think they have. I think they do have real bass, but it's a little more polished. Some don't have real bass and all of them, the rest, except wake me up tonight and some others have, um, have like electric drums and so, especially when you put quantize on that, you know, puts it like Right there. So I think what made it sound really like live and stuff was just using everything, just real instruments and, yeah, just going for that alternative rock feel and honestly I feel like we've. The next music release has really been on that rock, alternative rock, um kind of vibe, because I felt like we just found our sound in that and we just want to do more of that stuff. That's just we're all lyrically but also musically. So, yeah, there we. So the production of that was just like real drums and stuff.

Speaker 1: 32:04

That's awesome. A friend and I had like a whole two-hour discussion about the idea of loving loving the real, broken things more than the fake perfect things. And it was this idea that, like the music that we love or that we have memories tied to sometimes it is the like, scratchiness of the record or it was these old bands that like recorded in a mansion with real instruments and like the tune. Like I said, I'm not a musical guy, so like the vibrations of the tunes and the instruments weren't perfect and that was the thing that made the like amalgamation of all the instruments more perfect. Or like in cooking, it's like you know a little bit of burn here or a little bit of sear, or like most recipes that you come to in cooking, like they were accidents to some degree. Or like you know a lot of our favorite foods or foods that were like made out of necessity, like slave recipes or foods. But anyway, I'm kind of going off the rails. But like this idea that like there's beauty in like imperfection and rawness. I think it's tied to this, this idea of like us finding hope in things that are not perfect but still beautiful, like, I think, in song of Solomon, when Jesus or when God says, through Solomon, like I am dark but he calls me lovely. That's like the contrast to when John says, like the light came out of darkness and the darkness has not, or the light shown in darkness and the darkness has not overcome it. It's almost like the, the, the reverb, or the, the, the cracks in the art, like they make the beauty that's shining through more apparent, the, the power of resurrection in the jar of clay. So now I have a question on that. You said like fresh revelation is key and consistency is key. But knowing what you know now, how does musical revelation not become your job? Right, like, oftentimes, music sets a standard that everyone else is following and trying to copy. But you can't make setting a new standard. Be the thing that you were. But you also can't facilitate musical revelation as your job. Like authenticity, like hey, go, be authentic. It's like telling a comedian, like, be funny, it's like be revelatory right now. So I think I know what your answer is on some of your, some of your notes. But like, how does that hit you? What, what true genuineness can be there and you not lose that fire? You know, sounding like you sounded on the last album.

Speaker 2: 35:32

In an authentic place, in a real place in your life, whether, for instance, far, just in blue right. It was when I wrote that it was I was having a time with God, in my own time with God. I remember I was in the green room and it was just me, and I remember looking outside and I saw a whole like field of flowers, blue flowers and I might get tired of me and just started writing, but it came from that place of just worshiping God, and so that's why I just came out really quick and and so after that, and then also we have another song that's called rescue, and it's that is, from a different place, of a place of struggle, a place of of just really tugging and battling and and and so when we write to have new, fresh, it's like we don't want to be like, ok, let's write a worship song just because we want to write another worship song. It's like, no, it's because there's worship in you that you just need to get out. Or if you're hurting, there's hurt in in me that I need to get out. Or if there's happiness, joy, sadness, whatever, I need to get out. Not that I need to like pull it out, it just needs to come out, you know. So when it comes to like new music, for us it's really just writing from those places of just just real time. I mean I love what Johnny Johnny Cash said one time when he talks about him song writing. He's like you can't just tell me to write a song and I'm just going to write it, like like, maybe I'll be walking in the forest or walking in the field and boom, I'll be able to, it'll come to me. So I mean you can and people do just like, pump out songs in the sense of like, just to kind of, you know, as a job. But for me it's more than just a job and I think what really carries that also is the vision. Vision is so important in anything, because my dad always told me and my brother is growing up If you don't have vision, then numbers in any way are going to move you and you're not going to, you're not going to have a why. You need to have a why on what you do, because if you don't know, what are you doing? you know, and so for us our why isn't making music just to make music? Our why is we want to inspire people in our generation and in other generations, but to connect with people and to inspire them to have an unquenchable fire for God and just to find their purpose in him, and that's our vision. So, with that vision, it's like we write for that vision, we write to that vision, and that vision is burning each and every one of us, and so that's how songs come out, not really because it's just right, just to see what comes out, you know to inspire a generation to have an unquenchable fire for God. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 38:32

What a sentence that is.

Speaker 1: 38:33

I'm writing it down. That's such a good mission statement, my goodness.

Speaker 3: 38:42

Is that something you just came up with, like just now? No, no, that's something we have.

Speaker 2: 38:51

Now, when we started music I mean they came out In a moment, but my dad had us three in a room, because that's when he told him we're like, hey, we want to do music, and he was like he was like, okay, well, why, what's your vision? And we just sat there, kind of puzzle, for we're like always wanted music, just to you know, do so cool music for Jesus. He's like, no, what's your why, what's your vision? And so he let us dwell on that for a minute and and that, just as I was having my time with God and asking for the vision, asking for the why, that's what came up with. Just Just really, that's why I want to make music for, for those people To just really just be unashamed for Jesus and to just really just be all in and no lukewarmness, because that's where I was and I was in a lukewarm spot, and just just diving into him, diving into the secret place and and finding that passion that just doesn't stop, just can't stop. Like you see in the Bible, the people who had we're on fire for God, who's who would seek him, there was nothing that could stop them, like they had so much faith and confidence and who they were serving and who they were Doing it for, they would just go for it in faith, you know. And so that's really our, that's our mission statement, that's our, that's our vision on why we do what we do. Because if I lose my voice, if I lose my, my hands or my fingers stop working or I can't write or whatever the case, I Still have that mission statement. So music's, it's a tool, it's not my purpose.

Speaker 1: 40:23

Hey man man, this is good.

Speaker 3: 40:28

That's awesome, that you know why I mean that's, that's such a huge tool of like there's so many like business people and Leaders that, like they are just starting to figure out, like that, the importance in the last ten years of like, the importance of the why rather than what.

Speaker 2: 40:49

It's.

Speaker 3: 40:49

I mean, that's such a big you know spot to draw from. Is the why oh?

Speaker 1: 40:57

I love that like if I can't write or my fingers stop working, my purpose doesn't stop Because music is a tool that it's not my purpose to find, that place and fire for God that just cannot stop and inspire others to. I love that because you're saying You're saying your purpose is beyond your self and so that if pieces of yourself Change, or your expectation or your hopes or your, your vision of what the vision should be changes, your purpose doesn't change, it adapts and becomes more capable. Even though had a thought last week as God cuts off more and more of you in shaping the masterpiece, there's less of you but more of his purpose, and that's that's what I'm hearing from you. You wrote in flowers dressed in blue, yeah, and in one of the sections it's placed on embers I'm on ten. Mm-hmm, can you explain? Like to me, like what I'm on ten, like meant to you, like what is? What is that line?

Speaker 2: 42:11

Yeah, I'm on ten. That just means Because me, my friends, we'd always when we played baseball, when I play baseball, my we're all saying we got to be on ten, boys like alright, or whatever, just. Or someone was on a roll, someone was on fire, they'd be like hey, I'm on ten. So really that just came from that, just basically meaning like amen, I'm like, I'm pumped. You know, like I'm right, I'm, I'm going for it, like, and that's what really the song is is about. I mean, the course is literally just a chant, you know, just like a Just oh right, but it really just a song of just passion. And so in that pre-chorus you know, place on embers, I'm on ten. I'm just kind of saying like I'm on ten, I'm on, I'm on fire.

Speaker 1: 42:59

Because that, like thinking about the idea of being on fire or being refined, like there's such a there's such a contrary nature to that of Having passion and being on fire, like that's one of the most intense good places of life, and then also like it's interesting that that that's some of like the deepest trial. Mm-hmm like there's one way to say that and pray for that that feels exultant, and then there's another way that, like, like, do you even know what you're praying for? So in our last interview we talked about being like finding joy at the bottom of the pit or in those in those holes, and so sometimes I think about like you can be on fire by choice. Yeah like fanning a flame of worship and fire, that's good and then you can be set on fire. That's good. So how have you yeah, I guess earlier, when I was asking you about like your art not becoming a product Right, like it seems like we, we, we wane back and forth between those right like you're fanning the flame of your own choice, and then there is a being set in the fire like kind of not by choice, and both of them are like maintaining the heat if you will. But Sometimes it's easy when, when it's by your choice, when it is the fanning of the flame and it is the passion, but then it's hard. Yes when it is a, you're being put in the fire. Yet both of those can be authentic, right, they can produce authentic emotion. So the real like route of what I was asking earlier was how? How does being authentic not become your job? And you've answered really, really well. Like, what are some of the other markers that help you maintain that Authenticity as an artist where you know, oh, I'm like I'm just trying to perform Right now and I'm not, I'm not trying to be sincere. Like where do you find that line? Because that's kind of an issue I've had with, like friends who are artists before Like hey, I want you to lead this worship set, and then they're like Performing, I'm like that's not what I meant, you know, like, do you, do you have markers for yourself? Is that? Is it hard to know?

Speaker 2: 45:47

I don't know when, during worship, at least in a worship set. I remember one time I Was the worship at my church With my pastor and I remember we were backstage before and I was telling like man, like I'm not, I'm not, and I was having a really hard weekend or week that that day, and I remember I was like I Was like man, like I didn't spend time with God this week, like I feel like I Shouldn't be here right now. Like in the sense of like, because I want to go from a real place and I'm leading people in worship and and Things just been tough, piling on each other and and and I'm like it's like. But I want to be real and authentic. I don't want to go put on a fake like. Oh, like, you know, like, and I remember he told me he was like you're not supposed to do that. He's like worship, lead from where you are, worship for where you are. He's like you see David do that all the time in his Psalms where he there's somewhere he just talks about straight up, just you know, like you said, he's just set on fire. But then there's others where he's in the fire, where he's going through it, and he's, he's talking to guy. There's even somewhere he's been like Like God, where are you? Like I need you. And then he turns it back around to say, no, but you're still good. No, but this is still who you are. And I think in those situations, whether you're still, whether you're set on fire, they're two completely different circumstances. They're two completely different kinds of Emotional expressions in the sense of there's one where it's just more, it's a little more joyous, and then it's more like and as the other where it's like, you know, maybe I may not be feeling it, but worship isn't. It's not for us. We're not supposed to be consumers of worship. Worship is to him. So, even Whether we feel good or not, this is something that we give to him. It's the only thing that we give to him that he doesn't give to us. It's our gift to him. He doesn't worship us, we worship him. So I forgot the verse. I just someone my friend just read to me the other day where he talks about where God I don't know if it's, I think it was as a verse for God was saying To cast all anxieties on him and as he cast everything on him and to give him everything and really he just wants our heart. It's not about Worshiping from a place of okay, I gotta, because then that's religion. Right, where you got to look perfect, you got a, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put on a smile, I'm gonna put on oh god, it's no, it's worshiping from where you are. Whether it's good, whether it's bad, you can worship from those both places. One's? Yeah, so one is harder. But why? You're worshiping, he's fighting while you're worshiping, he's fighting the battles, he's taking care of it while you, while you, have your eyes set on him. Well, we have our eyes set on him. We have our eyes set on the circumstance, like when Peter was walking to Jesus, jesus sign him to keep his eyes on him and when he started to focus on the storm around him, he started to sink right, but it was still a storm going on. But he was able to still walk in that storm because he kept his eyes on Jesus. It wasn't a perfect. He didn't time to walk on a still pond Towards him. It was a storm. It was something scary going on around him and he said keep in. He had him keep his eyes on him and he was able to walk on the water, still in the storm, in that scare, because he must have felt there's I'm sure he was. If it was anyone, you, you would feel scared walking on a a crazy storm, like walking out, and he definitely had like you know, he definitely had to be like His adrenaline was probably really, really high and he was like whoa, like I'm doing this right now. It wasn't just like, oh okay, he wasn't running on the water, he was walking it. So like, yeah, I think even in writing as well, is that same approach of doing it from from where you are. And and I think once you, once you write about Just like, like you said, trying to make it a product, like it's pretty much set for not maybe not all the time, in my opinion it's set for failure, in a sense of you want something people could relate to, people can People could really just like, can feel, you know, because you can feel things you know. I think that's a big reason to, in secular music, why we is so much easier to connect, because usually when those people write not all of them, but when a lot of them right is from that place of, let's say, it's anger, right, and we feel those emotions or it's or it's sadness, or it's being broken or whatever, and they're just authentic and real about it and they just put it out there. You know, and I feel like it's obviously has a wrong message at the end. But you could do the same in worship, and then you see it all the time with Bobby. You could do it in worship, you could do it in songwriting. We just write from an authentic place but, like David did, you always point it back to God and he is the answer. And this is still still who he is, despite what's going.

Speaker 3: 51:03

I love. I love what you said about Peter, and that verse is actually first Peter 5, 7 Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. So just that Relating that to Peter was. I know you didn't mean to do that, but that's sick.

Speaker 2: 51:33

Yeah, I heard that version of day. I thought it was Paul, but I was like I know it's not Paul, but yeah, they got so.

Speaker 3: 51:38

Okay, cool, relating it to you know, Casting all your excitement you know like when you're drowning, like when I walk on water.

Speaker 1: 51:52

I love what you said at the end. There too, that like I'm paraphrasing. But secular music is often better because it's true to the heart. It's almost this idea of like there isn't a performance to be had. It's like this is what I really feel, whether it's anger, rage or resentment, and Sometimes it feels like the Christian artist Won't just be honest. It almost like oh, I don't want to lead people the wrong way. And sometimes it's like honey, just say whatever you're thinking, because it's what they're thinking too. You're just the one that is expressing it. And I think like I've often used the phrase, like you can tell God what you really think. He's a big boy, like he can handle it. And sometimes what I've thought is like by the time you're Sincerely honest with God, that you're angry or oh, heaven forbid you cuss at God or you rage at God, and like the moment you do that, two people in the room became aware of what you really felt and God didn't learn anything. So that was you being honest, you being sincere, saying what you really felt. And now it wasn't this room of you and God, where now he's like oh, I didn't know, you felt that way. It was like, hey, I'm glad you were willing to actually Own up and say that, since you've been like boiling over it for the past six months and wouldn't just say it. But then there's a. There is like a genuine value as an artist. As an artist, I think to, like you said, honoring God, like you can say what you feel About God and you can be angry about truth or about reality, but then once you say that there's this like residual stability, that you do end up at the end of the psalm and you're saying, but that's not true about you. Like that's just how I feel, it's just my perception, my perception that you've left me or hurt me or abandoned me. But then by the time you it's kind of like squeezing a wound, like all that comes out, and then at the end you're like but I'm still here and you are still good.

Speaker 3: 54:07

About David a bunch.

Speaker 1: 54:09

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 54:10

He would say things that are almost blasphemous, and then you like I.

Speaker 1: 54:20

Believe that way. And if I technically did believe that way I would have stumbled and he's like, but then I didn't.

Speaker 3: 54:35

This awful thing and it's like by the way. Glory to God. He's really good.

Speaker 1: 54:42

Yeah, yeah, like Rage is at the rich, prosperous man he's like and I almost believe that till I didn't.

Speaker 3: 54:51

That's really wise for you to say that sort of line of thanking with with David. And also I'm just wondering like, have you ever thought about putting in a song that is just like Angry as mess or just like you know, that other side of things that you feel like, is that just like to? I Don't know if I was, because we've done like Christian music and like I've written songs and stuff I've never released anything because I just don't really want to, but just like the idea of like that other side of the coin, because I know a lot of like Christian artists kind of stay away from that. So I'm just and Jared, you know, just left, so he's obviously Like not, but yeah, just have you ever thought about because I feel like a lot of your music is really Good and like honest and stuff but like, have you ever thought about like making something Like that? And maybe that's just not what you're feeling right now and I love that, but I'm just just curious for me.

Speaker 2: 56:04

Yeah, well, first of all, release the music, man, come on, oh yeah. But second of all, yeah, you know it's funny you say that, but the next music that we're gonna, that we're gonna release it was pretty deep into that and it's a little more. You know, it's a little more. Okay, I say I don't know how it's gonna be received, but All I know is it came from, it's coming from a lot of it. It's coming from real places. I mean, right right now I I Just been moments of struggling recently and and falling back into some things, but getting out of it obviously Not obviously, but I you know God of it, by the grace of God. But yeah, there there's songs, cuz I saw some advice. I got some advice the other day and it was whatever you're most afraid about, whatever you're most afraid to write about, right, oh, I like that and so it really took that a heart. These next release.

Speaker 3: 57:17

What does that come?

Speaker 1: 57:18

out, by the way.

Speaker 2: 57:20

So that one specifically that I'm talking about is gonna be in on the EP release and it's gonna come out. But December change I think February, february and March. But we're gonna release another one in December. It's another rock one. It's called dopamine. It's the first time never we're announcing that, so it's, we're gonna. We're gonna release that one first, and then there's another one Called funny. We're talking about it as a six, where it's literally at a time of worship and that versus came to mind a real. Based off of that, and then that the one that's, I guess is gonna be really guttural, um, is called all my friends now is gonna be released with the EP. So yeah, releasing the music, I'm really, really excited about it, though the although there's that, like you know, I mean even with flowers, just in blue man, we got so much, not so much. We got a lot of comments saying like it's on the devil, it's like rock is a real level of this and that I'm like man even now. It's time out flowers bro Like dang like. The second verse literally is talking about the cross, blessing crosses figured face Jesus, I'm in 22 grace. Like, talking about, like.

Speaker 1: 58:47

I'm not saying that.

Speaker 2: 58:48

Jesus, I'm talking about that, but. But I know.

Speaker 1: 58:57

Was bashing him and the other guy was saying like, can I be in paradise like it? It can be God in front of you like sacrificing himself for the world, and somebody's gonna be like, yeah, but you didn't like say this though. Oh, yeah, yeah, that shouldn't bug me.

Speaker 3: 59:18

Like I don't even care anymore if I get like trash comments, like I've kind of put that to bed, but like if somebody that's like you're really trying to do it, that's not me, it's like.

Speaker 2: 59:37

No man but, yeah, I mean, yeah, for us, we're kind of we understand as part of it and you know where you sit, but you know, with this, with the next ones, then we get some more of that, but it's really just coming from an authentic place, especially that one song it's gonna be. It's really talking about the mental health struggle and also what I think will relate to you know a lot of, I think a lot of guys too, because of the conversations I've had. It's like there's that same I'm trying to explain without Talking, okay, well, yeah, there's that same kind of I feel like we all go through through different ways, but still it's like the enemy is not creative and there's still that same attack on identity. And so, yeah, it's. I'm so excited about the new music or releasing and, to answer your question, yeah, the next, the next song's really start really just there is really just guttural is a word to use that yeah, Thanks for listening to the across the counter podcast.

Speaker 3: 1:00:51

If you enjoyed the show, please rate us five stars, wherever you got this podcast. Thanks, y'all. I.